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Jones to RJFS --THANKYOU!
November 19, 2009 - 2:34pm
It's been several years since I have posted anything in this forum. After recently talking with a 3 year Jones rep, I am once again inspired to come out of 'retirement' and share my thoughts.
I was formerly at Edward Jones, and a top producer there for some time. I went independent with Raymond James and wanted to share some insight. After ten plus years at Jones and six plus years at RJFS (can't believe how time flies), I can say that without a doubt, in virtually every available metric of comparison, being independent is such a better place to be. I'm sure Jones has made a few tweaks over the years. But, my guess is no matter how much makeup you try to put on the ugly girl--she is still...yes...an ugly girl.
As I sit in my office, looking back at how my business has evolved from Jones over the last six years, I can tell you this. My production is up about 25% from my final year at Jones--even with a bear market. My take home pay is up dramtically. At jones, living off .25bps trails--lol... and 35% payouts, and here today/gone tomorrow bonuses, and paying for my postage stamps and 1% of my net for advertsing..etc...--just didn't add up. Like most transaction oriented firms, you are like a hamster on wheel. Just running and running--and getting nowhere. You can only increase your revenue by bringing in new clients or by moving around money in existing client's accounts. It was a continual search for available client funds.
Now, in comparison. Slightly over half my revenue is fee driven. It's nice to know I can take a week off and not have a measurable decline in production. I enjoy the benefits of having my own safe harbor retirement plan. I enjoy the benefits of being my own boss and managing my business efiiciently. RJFS is not a perfect firm--far from it. It's just a much better firm than Edward Jones. In fact, being independent is probably the best business decision I have ever made. So--to those of you who spoke with me while I was at Jones "bleeding green" and drinking the proverbial kool-aid. I just wanted to put it out there and say Thank you. Thank you for helping me do the right thing for myself, my clients, and my business. It's made a big difference in my life.
Cheers and Happy Early Thanksgiving!
ZACKO
November 19, 2009 - 2:49pm
#2
Spiff-
You probably weren't around when Zacko started on these forums. Now here is an example of Jones rep who can quantify why its so much better being indy. Can't wait to hear your company response...
Zacko- my former monicker was footsoldier. It's nice to hear from you again. We actually talked on the phone a couple of times and all is very well on our end as well.
November 19, 2009 - 3:00pm
#3
uwec - you rear your ugly head for that?
zacko - What, were you bored today? Congrats on your success at RJ.
foot - what would I need to give him a company response about? I happy that he's happy. I don't personally agree that Raymond James is a better firm than EDJ. I do believe that he feels it is a better firm for him. To each his own.
November 19, 2009 - 3:13pm
#4
Spif...I only posted so I could get emails on the thread but thanks for your comment.
November 19, 2009 - 3:32pm
#5
Space, Have you worked at RJFS or just Jones?
November 19, 2009 - 3:39pm
#6
uwec1986 wrote:
Spif...I only posted so I could get emails on the thread but thanks for your comment.
wis-eau claire?
November 19, 2009 - 3:42pm
#7
Yes....Eau Claire...1986 grad....Go Bluegolds!
November 19, 2009 - 3:44pm
#8
Zack-
A point I have been making for eons is that Spiff only knows Jones. Has nothing else to compare and believes beyond any reasonable doubt that Jones is the best.
Spiff- Fairly accurate assessment?
November 19, 2009 - 3:57pm
#9
BigCheese wrote:
Zack-
A point I have been making for eons is that Spiff only knows Jones. Has nothing else to compare and believes beyond any reasonable doubt that Jones is the best.
Spiff- Fairly accurate assessment?
Not that I need to speak for Spiff or anyone else for that matter...but I believe he has said over and over "he believes beyond any doubt that Jones is the best ....FOR HIM!"
November 19, 2009 - 4:01pm
#10
uwec1986 wrote:
Yes....Eau Claire...1986 grad....Go Bluegolds!
Eau Claire freshman 1976
(dorm was 1078 Towers)
I cant remember my phone number, why do i remember that?
finished Madison
seems like it was 1576 now
November 19, 2009 - 4:14pm
#11
HKA-
I have to wonder how anyone could contend that the firm they work for is the only for him, if they have nothing to compare. Seems fairly obvious to me and probably others that its virutally impossible to be impartial with such a limited view of the overall marketplace.
November 19, 2009 - 4:26pm
#12
How many sales pitches from how many brokerage firms does one need to hear to make an assumption of contentment? If you are going to base one's ability to make a judgement based solely on first hand experience, then only the most seasoned journeyman with possibly a dozen firms behind him could make an "accurate" decision.
November 19, 2009 - 4:28pm
#13
BigCheese wrote:
HKA-
I have to wonder how anyone could contend that the firm they work for is the only for him, if they have nothing to compare. Seems fairly obvious to me and probably others that its virutally impossible to be impartial with such a limited view of the overall marketplace.
I'll give you an example...I have been in the business world for many years now, however, this industry is fairly new to me ( a few years in)...I know that at this point in my career, after doing extensive research...that Jones is a great place to work, particularly for a new FA...this model (EDJ)...suits a new advisor as well as a mega producer (IMHO). However, I do believe it punishes the middle of the road guy, as you can be making 50k/trimester (profit) and only get a piddly bonus...the bonus kicks up after a certain number (not sure what that is yet). Now, that being said...I know that when my assets/production hit a certain point...I will certainly look at my options at that time and consider Indy...however, at this time, Jones is certainly the best firm FOR ME.
Now...i'm not saying that I'm correct, however, if it is truly how I feel it is good enough right now. Of course, for some people, believe it or not, the culture of our firm, trumps the money issue....I am not one of those people. So if Spiff, or anyone else says that it is best for them...I believe them....What if someone said, Cheese, you never worked for a wire...or a bank...so if I say that would be best for you, you couldn't deny it......IMO that's silly...Indy is the best for you because that is what your experience/heart tells you.
So all i'm saying is that whatever someone thinks is best for them at that time....is....whether technically there is something out there that may make you more money...or give you more products etc...see what i'm saying here??
November 19, 2009 - 4:34pm
#14
The firm you work for means something but, let me ask you this, what have you gotten in this business that you DIDNT get on your own?
no manager or firm has ever REALLY made a difference for my career. The BEST you can expect is that they dont screw anything up.
November 19, 2009 - 4:35pm
#15
BigCheese wrote:
Zack-
A point I have been making for eons is that Spiff only knows Jones. Has nothing else to compare and believes beyond any reasonable doubt that Jones is the best.
Spiff- Fairly accurate assessment?
Accurate assessment that I have worked only worked for Jones in this career. I do believe that Jones is a wonderful company and beyond a reasonable doubt the best company for me. For you and countless others, there are other best companies.
November 19, 2009 - 4:46pm
#16
HKA-
Until you have worked for another firm, its all conjecture. You hope, assume, pray, I don't care what you want to call it, that the firm you are with is the best for you. If you couch it at the time, I can understand and even appreciate your point.
What I have been trying to get across for a long time is that when you have stepped outside the Jones culture/company, it is then that you can be impartial. You can truly assess whether the firm is appropriate for you long term. Hearing from a former top producer at Jones and now out 6 years with Ray Jay is giving a perspective that all of you ought to at the very least take into consideration.
In 1997 when I was hired by Jones I truly felt it was the last firm for me. 9 years later I left. It wasn't instantaneous, but over time I realized it wasn't the firm that I could see myelf retiring from. And now looking back after 3 complete years since, I am reminded with messages like Zacko earlier, that the path that I took like many others, was the best for me.
Again I will say this about Jones. A great place to learn the business.
November 19, 2009 - 5:26pm
#17
Wow Zacko, glad to see you back. You were a strong inspiration that pushed me over the edge to RJ (while I operated under a different handle). Everything you told me would happen has come true. Due to the decline and some short term expenses, my personal bottom line is only slightly better than it would have been at Jones, but my peace of mind has skyrocketed. Beyond that, the upside is swinging in my favor and I am about to get back into that 45-65% net net range before long. The thing about all of this Jones/Indy banter is that once you go Indy, outside of these forums you rarely look back. The forums give us an opportunity to express in writing how much better it actually can be than at Jones, and that is only understandable after you've left.Zacko you are a better man than me for having the discipline to leave this forum as long as you did. It is an addiction for me, even though the content has gotten very immature over the last two years. Seeing an old familiar name brings back a level of sophistication to this place.
November 19, 2009 - 9:43pm
#18
Zacko, i don't recall seeing you on the boards back then, i have been on and off the boards for more than three years.
But your post was great. Maybe you can stick around and add some INTELLIGENT content to the forum, which lately has been overshadowed by nonsense.
I joined RJFS 6 months ago and am extremely happy. But its a short time to make a judgement, so it was encouraging to read your post.
No doubt for ME, the Indy model is the right model. It gives me control and allows me to live my life my way.
November 19, 2009 - 9:43pm
#19
It's good to see an old familiar broker like Zacko...I don't post often here anymore because the forums have deteriorated into a high school environment..."stop talking about me or I will out you". But I enjoyed your wizdom over the years & hope to see more of you around. Like you I joined RJFS (2006) & have never looked back. Its' the best move I ever made.
Agreed indy is not for everyone, I still have friends that require the "incubation" chamber that is Jones & they have no desire to want to leave the womb..so be it, to them they have it all & maybe in their world they do.
November 19, 2009 - 10:01pm
#20
BigCheese wrote:
HKA-
Until you have worked for another firm, its all conjecture. You hope, assume, pray, I don't care what you want to call it, that the firm you are with is the best for you. If you couch it at the time, I can understand and even appreciate your point.
What I have been trying to get across for a long time is that when you have stepped outside the Jones culture/company, it is then that you can be impartial. You can truly assess whether the firm is appropriate for you long term. Hearing from a former top producer at Jones and now out 6 years with Ray Jay is giving a perspective that all of you ought to at the very least take into consideration.
In 1997 when I was hired by Jones I truly felt it was the last firm for me. 9 years later I left. It wasn't instantaneous, but over time I realized it wasn't the firm that I could see myelf retiring from. And now looking back after 3 complete years since, I am reminded with messages like Zacko earlier, that the path that I took like many others, was the best for me.
Again I will say this about Jones. A great place to learn the business.
"when you have stepped outside the Jones culture/company, it is then that you can be impartial."
Please sell me on how this makes you impartial. A new and additional perspective I will buy. Impartial? I think you are selling your usual bucket of crap. I am not buying any but you might be able to sell some of it here.
November 19, 2009 - 10:08pm
#21
welcome back my brother.....
November 19, 2009 - 10:44pm
#22
your scared to say it
Spiff is an idoit
and Windy toooooo.
November 19, 2009 - 10:54pm
#23
BigCheese wrote:
HKA-
I have to wonder how anyone could contend that the firm they work for is the only for him, if they have nothing to compare. Seems fairly obvious to me and probably others that its virutally impossible to be impartial with such a limited view of the overall marketplace.
Cheese, do you believe in god? I hope not, because you couldn't possibly believe that god is the best thing for you, unless you've been a satanist.
November 19, 2009 - 10:54pm
#24
Ronnie Dobbs wrote:
Cheese, do you believe in god? I hope not, because you couldn't possibly believe that god is the best thing for you, unless you've been a satanist.
I thought you quit me? Go away idiot.......you are worse than spiff..
dumbass
November 19, 2009 - 11:01pm
#25
u sick religious fool
u must be in the south
ur insane
November 20, 2009 - 10:08am
#26
Thank you for the kind words and it's nice to see a few familiar "faces" as well. It also seems the more things change, the more they stay the same...or something like that. I don't know how long I will stay--but I will share the following.
In retrospect, I really have no ill feelings towards Jones. I probably SHOULD for the way they take advantage of the uneducated financial advisor, and pretend to be something that they are indeed far from. Underneath the cultism of my decade long career at Jones I was provided some fine training, and in some ways I am appreciative of the time I spent there. I made some friends, many of whom are now indy, that I still stay in touch with today.
Jones was very well paid for reveune I was able to generate. Over my career, when you throw in revenue sharing, years with little or no bonus (I was doing between 650-750k at the time) and the office overhead I was sharing in the cost of--Jones took home close to 50% more money that I did. That's not close to being fair. I had heard of a few friends going independent, but naturally I was skeptical at first. My skeptisim proved to be totally unfounded.
In fact, the debate of Jones vs Indy should have died a long time ago. There should be no argument from anyone (except a newish IR--oh wait you are called FA's now)((just like RJFS)) that Jones is better. Now, if your a two or three year FA with 15 million or even 20 million under management, there is no financial advantage to leaving. At 30 million and up, the financial advantage really starts to show. Quite frankly it's simple math that anyone on this board can do. So beyond payout--what else is there? Payout is more than enough for many of us...but look past it for just a moment.
What about technology?
Research?
Many more products?
A true ability to manage a fee based practice?
Owning your own business with a sucession plan? Has Jones addressed this?
Being truly independent with no requirement to attend meetings or expectations to train your competition?
Tax advantages? They are H U G E. Too many to name. And don't tell me "paybills" or some equivalent is just as good. It's not even close.
How many of you at Jones are paying AMT?
Funny that RJFS started deferred comp a year or two ago. RJFS put more in my deferred comp than Jones did in my profit sharing..lol.
As a top producer, I also get trips. And while they are better than the Jones trips with no mandatory meeting--I do also have to pay taxes on them. Call that a wash and I think I'm being generous.
I honestly think most Jones FA's (still want to say IR's) are smart people. I think they fall into two camps.
Camp 1: The fearful. They know it's "probably" better but they are comfortable and afraid of making the jump. Maybe a point in time will come when they get pissed off at something that happens at Jones, then will they do it. But for the most part, fear holds them back.
Camp 2: The kool aid chugger. Ya you know the type. They are smart, organized, and do whatever Jones tells them as they believe it to be absolute gospel. They feel they owe Jones for the fantastic opportunity they have been given. They refuse to believe the fact that you make more money as an indy. They think everything at Jones is the best, yet they have no other benchmark whatsoever to compare it to.
There you have it!
ZACKO
November 20, 2009 - 10:20am
#27
Right on brother (that was for Spiff)!
November 20, 2009 - 10:39am
#28
The ball roller lives!
November 20, 2009 - 2:05pm
#29
Y-
Check out item 2 of Zacko's comments. That's impartiality talking. Someone who has done it much longer than you, Spiff, B24 et.al., and gone somewhere else.
I know best firm for you now, I get it (how was the B pretty nice wasn't I)...
November 20, 2009 - 2:17pm
#30
Which one is item 2? Are you talking about the research comment or the compensation comment?
Just FYI - you can't claim impartiality if you are on one of the sides being discussed. You can't say that Zacko is impartially arguing that RJFS is better than Jones. That's like playing a basketball game and letting a player from off the bench of one of the teams be the referee. So, stop saying he's impartial. You just don't sound all that smart when you say it.
Right on my brother!
I got the ball rolling on RS